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One of the things I do these days is video game streaming on Twitch, and I generally try to do so with actual consoles.
Trying to get the output of a game console into a monitor is one of the major problems with trying to stream a game console. LCD monitors with CVBS (composite or S-Video ports are a bit difficult to come by these days, and even worse I'm using an ordinary desktop LCD (Dell E228WFP) with only VGA and DVI inputs. I set myself a couple rules:
- No CRTs. They're big, they're heavy, I don't have a good place to put one, and thus they create a complication I'd rather try to avoid.
- No SCART. SCART has been relegated to being "the retrogaming enthusiast's video connector" and therefore anything that deals with SCART is priced accordingly, especially living in a region where SCART was not prevalent when it was in regular use. HD15 (e.g. VGA) connectors are wholly adequate for transmitting RGB analog video.
An additional challenge is that game consoles, especially from the 16-bit era and earlier, use non-standard video mode timings collectively termed "240p"-- essentially, instead of transmitting an "even" and an "odd" field like in normal interlaced NTSC, the device sends only one field type. While CRTs of the day had no problem with this, modern HDTV equipment tends to choke.
The thing most people recommend is the Open Source Scan Converter; however, the only producer is Video Game Perfection. At the time I started looking at this, they were based in the UK and their £135 cost (plus shipping) came out to about $200; they've since moved to Ireland and their now €135 cost plus shipping knocks it down to about $175. (I have at times wondered how much capital I'd need
I felt that was a bit steeper than what I was willing to spend on this hobby, so I went looking around for cheaper options. One thing that did catch my eye was the Extron DVS 304, which boasts a wide variety of inputs and outputs:
So it's got a lot of points in its favor:
This was "professional"-level gear, but as more and more professional installations are moving to HDMI, models like this can be found from eBay pretty cheaply-- and after finding a video where someone was able to successfully use a DVS 304 with a Genesis, I pulled the trigger on an Extron DVS 304 DVI with shipping for about $35.
Unfortunately, I've since learned a couple things: specifically, while one would think that the "DVI" model just augments the RGB output of VGA with a DVI transmitter for digital and leaves the input frontend alone, it turns out that the "DVI" model appears to be substantially different from the non-DVI model.
To wit: I'm unable to get any usable picture out of 240p signals. The usual failure mode for video hardware is that it processes 240p as 480i, usually leading to effects like "combing" or flashing objects not properly being rendered (see some of HD Retrovision's examples). The Extron DVS 304 DVI does something completely different.
I've shared some earlier videos around Discord in the past, but now that I've finally picked up a better capture card, here's a comprehensive video of me trying out the DVS 304 DVI with three game consoles:
Note too, I haven't tried to dial in any color settings or the like-- this is all just the first pass of "is the result something playable". Also, this is with the latest version of the firmware (thanks to dentnz on the OpenVGS Discord for helping me obtain it).
Another curiosity I've found is that there is a difference between Virtual Console games launched via the Wii System Menu vs. an EmuNAND-capable loader (such as USB Loader GX) when the Wii is in 480p mode. From the Wii System Menu, Virtual Console games will automatically output in either 480i or 480p (I'm not sure which is happening). However, from USB Loader GX, I appear to get the same result as if my Wii were set to be in 480i mode. I've tried setting "Force NTSC480p" as well as other video-patching options but nothing seems to do the trick-- I assume that this is due to use of a custom IOS slot to support games on EmuNAND (instead of the slot it's "supposed" to use), but I don't know enough about the Wii ecosystem to know for certain.
The thing most people recommend is the Open Source Scan Converter; however, the only producer is Video Game Perfection. At the time I started looking at this, they were based in the UK and their £135 cost (plus shipping) came out to about $200; they've since moved to Ireland and their now €135 cost plus shipping knocks it down to about $175. (I have at times wondered how much capital I'd need
I felt that was a bit steeper than what I was willing to spend on this hobby, so I went looking around for cheaper options. One thing that did catch my eye was the Extron DVS 304, which boasts a wide variety of inputs and outputs:
- Input 1: CVBS (via BNC)
- Input 2: Composite/S-Video/YPbPr (via BNC)
- Input 3: S-Video mini-DIN
- Input 4: 15-pin HD supporting RGBHV, RGBS, YPbPr, S-Video, and Composite
- Output: RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, or YPbPr
So it's got a lot of points in its favor:
- Basically every input useful for a retro game console (if you I'm willing to eschew SCART for HD15 connectors) while letting me take my time in upgrading cables from CVBS/S-Video up to RGB
- RS232 control for automation (which will pair quite nicely with my Extron MPS 112CS RGBHV/S-Video/CVBS switch) instead of needing a dumb IR blaster
- Half-rack form factor for convenient mounting
- Dual outputs to go both to an LCD and to a capture card and not needing a VGA splitter
This was "professional"-level gear, but as more and more professional installations are moving to HDMI, models like this can be found from eBay pretty cheaply-- and after finding a video where someone was able to successfully use a DVS 304 with a Genesis, I pulled the trigger on an Extron DVS 304 DVI with shipping for about $35.
Unfortunately, I've since learned a couple things: specifically, while one would think that the "DVI" model just augments the RGB output of VGA with a DVI transmitter for digital and leaves the input frontend alone, it turns out that the "DVI" model appears to be substantially different from the non-DVI model.
To wit: I'm unable to get any usable picture out of 240p signals. The usual failure mode for video hardware is that it processes 240p as 480i, usually leading to effects like "combing" or flashing objects not properly being rendered (see some of HD Retrovision's examples). The Extron DVS 304 DVI does something completely different.
I've shared some earlier videos around Discord in the past, but now that I've finally picked up a better capture card, here's a comprehensive video of me trying out the DVS 304 DVI with three game consoles:
- Sega Genesis (with 32X) connected via CVBS
- Super Nintendo connected with S-Video
- Nintendo Wii connected with YPbPr
Note too, I haven't tried to dial in any color settings or the like-- this is all just the first pass of "is the result something playable". Also, this is with the latest version of the firmware (thanks to dentnz on the OpenVGS Discord for helping me obtain it).
Most of the literature that's out there reviewing upscalers and video processors (for example, RetroRGB, or Fudoh's list) concerns itself with the characteristics of processing RGB (as this is usually the "native" and highest-quality video output from a console)-- I was surprised that the DVS 304 DVI behaves so poorly with CVBS and S-Video signals.
Another curiosity I've found is that there is a difference between Virtual Console games launched via the Wii System Menu vs. an EmuNAND-capable loader (such as USB Loader GX) when the Wii is in 480p mode. From the Wii System Menu, Virtual Console games will automatically output in either 480i or 480p (I'm not sure which is happening). However, from USB Loader GX, I appear to get the same result as if my Wii were set to be in 480i mode. I've tried setting "Force NTSC480p" as well as other video-patching options but nothing seems to do the trick-- I assume that this is due to use of a custom IOS slot to support games on EmuNAND (instead of the slot it's "supposed" to use), but I don't know enough about the Wii ecosystem to know for certain.
At any rate: If you're looking for a cheap alternative to the OSSC, I'd recommend staying away from the Extron DVS 304 DVI. The non-DVI model is reported to be better-behaved-- if I can find one at around the $35 price-point I'd be willing to give it a shot. Until then, I'm mostly only using this as an overkill VGA splitter, with a ViewSonic NextVision N4 to handle CVBS/S-Video to VGA conversion.
